Topic of discussion
: Fit vs. Style
with Peggy Sagers
Chat Transcript
- 12/04/2002 provided by SewNews.com
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Now
talking in sewing Hi all. I'm gearing up for the Peggy
Sagers chat in a few minutes. How about you? That's what I'm here
for. Great! Hope you have some good questions
for her.
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Welcome,
ya'll. We'll be getting started in a minute. Hello, I am
here, ready whenever.
Good
Evening everyone Then we'll start... Tonight our guest
is Peggy Sagers, author of "Dressed to Kill...Gently" and the Silhouette
Patterns line. Peggy will be chatting on Fit Issues vs. Style Issues.
Welcome, Peggy.
thanks, these chats always start slow and then take off
and an hour is never long enough I am going
to define fit and style Fit is length, depth and circumference
the body has three lengths base of the neck
to bust, bust to waist, and waist to hip the circumference
is obvious and the depth are the bumps of our bodies
to include the bust, tummy, shoulder blades, rear end and elbow
These are always on the body, but not always in every garment we sew.
Some garments don t have depth
Darting is depth depth is permanent in a garmetn
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so
let's start by making sure we all understand those basic three items
let me know if you do or do not Is the base of the neck
to bust measured from the place where the neck meets the shoulder?
yes, but more important than measuring is to drape, but even if we measured
it wrong I believe so.. you make it sound nice and simple..
no if I could just get my circumfrance to get along with my other measurements
LOL as long as we measure the garment in the same place
where we measure the body, the place does not matter Combining
all three measurements is obviously the trick, but it is important not
to confuse the three we can
10,0Isn't
it true that most pattern companies are only concerned with circumference?
't
solve circum by increasing the dart or vice
versa and we can't solve gaps by increasing the circum
gaps are a depth issue they are solved with darts
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most
pattern companies are definately only concered with circumference,
that is all they give on the envelope
10,0
So, if you're short waisted and have a C cup - you have a problem!?
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and
it is only body measurements, not the garment measurements, so you never
know what the pattern will end up being that is soooooooooo true!
not at all, if you are short waisted, then you shorten the
pattern from the bust to the waist and if you are a c cup
, then you increase the darting from b to c
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you
just have to look at those as two separate issues, not one and keep them
straight when working with the pattern
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once
you take a pattern out, you should measure it circum to see if you like
the styling. Circum in the top part of the body is mobility
and in the bottom allows you to sit
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But
there can be personal preference involved
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for
the most part, fit is non debatable
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no
one wants their bust point at their wasit just because they like the style
Which do you alter first, the length or the dart?
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the
order does not matter as long as you know what you are doing
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10,0
How much can you alter by yourself - don't you really need help for fit?
I
usually do length first because if the waist is not in the right place,
it can affect circum of the hips so if you do circum, then
length, you have to come back and redo cir, but that is just my personal
preference
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How
do you define the hip circumference -- do you measure a certain number
of inches down from your waist? do you make a muslin sloper for each
new pattern you are making for yourself? it is wrong to
think I need help with fit, we are struggling with fit becuase we don't
know what it is, not because it is difficult
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the
widest part of the body below the waist is considered the hip.
10,0
Yes, but when you're doing it by yourself (even making a sloper) it's
tough to see
10,0
what's in the back!
again,
just make sure the body and the pattern match
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no,
I only make a muslin for style, but you all should make one first muslin
for fit
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then
when it is on the body So, when you measure the "hip", you should
include "saddle bags?" mark the bust point, the waist, the
hip then take it back flat and see all those important
measurement back flat
laughing
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and
you don't have to measure The body is difficult to measure.
from the back, I can see if the length is correct, can I
not if the depth is wrong, I will have gaps at the armholes
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and
if the circum is too small, I can't move
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saddle
bags will include themselves.
10,0
So, is an erect back a depth issue?
when
I measure the hip, I wrap the tape measure around my widest point and
then sit then make sure it is the same point on the pattern
an erect back is a depth issue, very good
like a flat chest lol About those saddles - yes
my "hip" is 9-10" below my waist. Once I fit that & baste the darts my
skirts fit. i can relate I'm having a problem
following the size lines on the patterns, is there an easy way to make
sure I'm on the correct line
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does
not matter where your hip is as long as you make your patterns match your
body
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when
you say you are having a hard time following the size lines, I am assuming
you are refering to my patterns, so yes we have gotten that
feedback and all new patterns are marked more clearly by sizing every
turn of every line Suzi - thanks for coming!
am I answering that correctly
When
making pants or a skirt from one of your patterns, do you suggest choosing
the size by the waist or by the hip measurement?
I
appreciate your feedback, we would never know what you don't like if you
don 't tell us depends on a
skirt
Peggy
I met you at the Sewing Expo w/my mother in October in Chantilly VA -
bought that houndstooth check (rayon?) with black embroidery at bottom
- used your wrap pattern & it came out beautifully! (well, I still have
to line it but I can already tell it will be super. AND I've decided to
shorten all my skirts as you recommended!!! So at 40 now I'm shortening
my skirts!!! Thank you, everyone says how much better the length 4 [msg
continues in 20 secs] i would use my hip measurement
is for me. 4 [msg complete] smy sitting hip measurement
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then
simply increase the dart size to fit my waist on pants,
are my thighs large or small
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if they are small and I just have larger hips, I
would use the waist measuremnt if they were large, I would
use the hip measurement thanks for that comment onthe wrap
skirt, it is one of my favorite patterns That was very helpful,
Peggy. Thank you. thanks for being here, the goal is to
learn and this is a great forum no stupid questions
thanks to sew news, what a great magazine Now that we almost
understand fit, where does style come in? the difference
between fit and style, it that fit is non debatable style
is debatable the size of armhole is style
one person may hate it while one loves it collar width is
style width of shoulders is style style is
important you need to know what youlike On most
sleeve patterns I find that the top of the sleeve is too narrow.
On
your patterns I find that there is too much with. They are a lot more
comfortable. I find that if I take a little and make the top a little
narrower, it works quite well.
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I always seem to have difficulty fitting a vest
so that it lays properly over my bust. Do I need to include darts?
you
should measure a sleeve and armhole that you like and then copy that
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in my opinion , all garments should have darts
we have bumps, clothes should have darts Why is that?
darts can become other things why is that what?
darts can become seams, gathers, etc,
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Peggy,
do you have a dart sewing technique (for traditional darts)?
but without darts, the cloth will not lay flat, it will add excess to
our bodies making us look heavier than we are What about matching
larger florals & patterns with those darts especially princess seams
I sew darts from the tip to the wide part i start at the
tip, always
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it
is the most important point That's an unusual way. Do you backtack
at the tip?
10,0
Why do you start at the tip of the dart - I was taught just the opposite!
I
don't like darts or princess seams from the armhole and many of you have
a very hard time with them I like princess seams fromthe
shoulder
What
can be done about extra fabric in the back waist area in ready to wear?
If the bust fits I can't get the back length to work, even in petite.
actually,
the way the home sewer sews darts is the unuaual way, the factories start
at the tip it is more accurate. you can backtack or just
leave it, the threads will tangle themselves is the extra
fabric, length or width? length
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whenever
you are trying to solve a fitting problem, ask yourself is it length,
depth, or circum if it is length, then use a tuck horizontal
to take out the extra length Are the darts straight or do they
curve slightly? the shaping ofthe darts does not matter,
it depends on the body And if it's circumference?
10,0When
should darts curve?
Darts-either
leave a long tail, sewing off the edge so the thread twists, or leave
a long tail and tie a few knots at the end. then there should
be darts, vertical ones that can be increased or take in additional at
the sides
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darts
can curve in under the bust or curve out over the tummy.
for full bust, they can curve out When shortening the back
waist length , I do the same to the front.
Is
that always necessary? I have a full bust.Therefore I need more length
in front, right? This is making more sense. I attended one of your
seminars (at Textile Treasures) and I am so "hungry" for more informaiton!
for
a hollow back, they can curve in The length in the front
and back of the body have nothing to do with one another, they just have
to meet at the side right what about the person
with a high hip and small waist. I've seen some strange darts with this
fit should make a lot of sense, if it does not, you don't
have good information and keep looking
Peggy,is
there a rule of thumb about how long sleeves should be?
I
can do anything with the cloth that the body can do I have
to use my tools, they are the side seams the darts and my
french curve when you flip up your wrist, the sleeve should
hit the top of your hand
That's
interesting. I was taught to always do to the each piece the same alteration
if the two were to be sewn together.
hold
you arm down straight, flip up your hand and your sleeve
should hit your hand you do have to have the side seams
match, but hopefully you can see that the front length of
the body and the back length of the body are totally different
If I shorten the back and not the front how will they meet evenly at the
sides? that should just be logical
Peggy do you have some suggestions related to darts
for a person with a small waist and high
my
shorten and lengthen lines do not have to be the same at center back as
they do at the sides
Thank
you! Another pattern question - for one of your vests, tops, etc. -- do
I use a full bust garment measurement? If I need more at
the back, but the side is ok, then I make an angled cut to add to the
back and leave the side along
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or
if I add to the side less, then I have to lengthen the side on the front
and then taper to nothing at center front that's darting, right?
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the
alteration looks like a dart, but it is not sewn, a dart creates depth
in the garment, so it is an angle without being a dart great!
Always use a circum measuremetn, then use a depth or dart to go along
remember, they are two different things
You
lost me...do you have a book? yes rdc
courtlfs
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where
did i loose you? if I lost you, I probably lost someone
else,ask questions and we can try again. the part where it looks
like a dart but you don't sew it this is important if you
are going to sew
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if i am adding more to the center back, less to
the side, and then none to the front, what is rdc ?
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that
alteration will look like a dart no, rdc is just the person
who made the comment
oooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
lol got it circum changes come
before length?
i knew you would this is easy stuff
i do length before cir just picture this
i put on a garment
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and
the waist is below my waist the hips may not go around,
because the waist is at my high hip so if
i fix the cir , then fix the length and put
the waist back at the waist , then the cir will be too large
because I made it fit when the waist was at my high hip
does that make sense
What
you say makes perfect sense. It will be right when it's on the body.
10,0
Peggy, I often hear the term "high hip." What is that?
10,0Probably
a stupid question - but is there an easy way to dermine where your true
waist 10,0is? My daughter (12) and I have a difference of opinion where
her waist should go. Can you tie elastic 10,0around your middle and bend
at the side to fine it? so if i change the waist and do
the length adjustment first then do the cir
i dont have to do cir twice
Yes,
but some of the times I get darts that distort the pattern if the correct
amount is taken up in the waist. This is using 2 darts in the
front and back
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it is tough to argue with a 12 year old where she
wants her waist, you may win the argument and she may never wear the garment
I would put the waist where she wants it
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10,0Tough
to argue with a 12 year old, period! i would agree, but
we have all been there so do you have a book ?
yes,
but not on fit, the book is on style I do videos on fit
10,0
But you have great videos!
to
me it is a visual thing, books don't do it justice
What
will your next video cover Peggy I just want to thank you for what
i learned in your class last month. It has made a big difference.
thanks
what are they called good, education is everything
we are working on a new video, not to be release until January
soonest
10,0Will
you be back at the Puyallup Expo next year?
we
have 6 new pattens coming out Jan 1 yes
Well
now I have a better understanding and pants that fit Puyallup
is my favorite show will you have it ther
yes,
great
I enjoy it very much have gone for many years Are your patterns
marked where the waist is?
pants
are the most difficult to fit becuase you have to know what
you are doing
what
are the patterns ? So will it be another video on pants.
if you know what you are doing, they are easy
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yep
but with your help I'm getting them too good
no, the video we are working on is draping
Question,
with the video you have covering pants do they give you directions for
drafting we have draping pants on the pants video
or does it cover pattern alterations?
the
pants are drafted from a skirt and yes it is on the video explain
draping please....... and it also covers alterations
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I
use a sloper a lots do you recommend draping over a sloper
15 minutes, talk questions come on or both
10,0What
are your new patterns - and will they be on your web site?
they are the same thing, you should drape to get
your sloper, they sloper is just a base pattern that fits
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10,0Can
you drape by yourself?
but
you should drape muslin to get the sloper and then trace the muslin onto
cardboard to get the sloper
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yes
you can drape by yourself
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10,0without
being a gymnast?
again,
if yoiu know how, When I was fitted for the sloper we used
the draping format. Now I just use it to put the
10,0I
can drape just fine on a dress form! I have seen 20 women
working on fit and can't get it right because they don't know what they
are donig I want to get back into sewing.I need business clothes
what is a good piece to start with for a petite plus size who hasn't sewn
in years?
designer's
ease into the pattern and I purchase muslin by the bolts
the knowledge is more important than the numbers
10,0I
will be taking your fitting seminars in the spring. How do you like the
muslin slopers to be 10,0prepared for class?
I
have a pattern line, I don't think there are better patterns out there
than mine sorry email me privately and we'll
go over the muslins
I'm
interested in focal points -- especially on a petite body. What would
you recommend? what do yours do special ?
the
new patterns are a wrap blouse, cowl neck, jean jacket, skirt, and two
jackets
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one
is a Versace knock off, and the other an art to wear, loose fit
Yeah a cowl neck! the focal point should always be the face,
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unless
you are making your living being a prostitute lol
the face is the focus the clothes should focus the fac
10,0Any
easy way to convert your pleated pant pattern to a flat front pant?
Do flat front pants work for a full tummy?
Karen
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on
my website, we have the directions on how to convert darts to pleats and
pleats to darts
10,0Do
you have a favorite fabric that you find particularly flattering in pants?
www.silhouettepatterns.com
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flat fronts are always better on any body,
10,0Ah
ha! There it is! Thanks for the conversion directions.
the
bigger the body, darts are always better than pleats. tucks, or gathers
I
thought pleats would hide full tummies ? I love silk pants
Don't they emphasize the fullness? I always thought
pleats were better in pants on a little tummy (I have big thighs)
six ply silk pants' pleats do not hide anything
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will
you have the 6 ply silk material at Expo
more
fabric is not better
I
want to make Betsey's jacket but there are so many pieces. How do I know
it is going to fit? I know, I know, a muslin. But they take so long!
probably
not, i don't buy normal stuff, i buy the weird stuff
10,0Love
Betsy's jacket - I've made two and they're the most flattering!
Where did that idea of pleats come from then. I've been misinformed! I
only wear pleated fronts.
betsy's
jacket is so easy to fit. It is hard to screw up
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You
talk about fabric however for many of us it is very hard to find a wide
variety of fabrics
just
pick the cir yoiu want
guest754:
me too on the pleats. Maybe it's our age?
that
are also quality.
Do
you have any recommendations as to where one can purchase them
then pick the depth, b cup, c cup or d
we
have done it for you
Alas,
our time is up. Peggy,
we really enjoyed chatting with you. Thank you so much for your time and
inspiration.
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Yes.
I loved my first chat! thanks........sew much
10,0Thank you! Peggy, please come back to
Kansas City!
10,0With
Betsy's jacket I did a lot of the 'fine tuning' fitting after it was basted
together.
10,0Transferred
the corrections to the pattern and the second jacket was a breeze.
me too, a first , thanks Peggy
Join us
here again next month at the same time for Cindy Elam of Elan pattern,
chatting about bra-making basics.
I
am going to start doing fabrics, it is just in the works, but I have heard
the compliant enough, we are going to try Thanks, Peggy
Thank
You!
Would
like more info. New York City!Please! YEAH Peggy!!!!
ty
thanks
for having me, learn fit, length, depth, and cir check the
web page for places teaching, it got posted today
Peggy,
you are the best!!!
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thanks
Sew NEws, good night all and happy holidays, the best to you all
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10,0Plan
to do any seminars around the NW before or after the Expo (nothing on
your site)
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Did
I miss everything?
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Yes,
Peggy just left. Thanks for dropping by.
Oh My
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